Carl Gustav Jung ~ Sakinorva Databank

Carl Gustav Jung

Psychiatrist

Philosophy, Psychology, and Social Sciences

function

ennea

variant

socio

psyche

INFJ 16

INTP 2

5w6 12

5w4 4

9w1 2

5wb 2

sx/sp 6

sp/sx 4

so/sx 1

LII 15

IEI 5

ILI 1

LVEF 5

total votes 105

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	Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE 2019/12/23 (Mon) 23:36:50 #7547
	"From the beginning I had a sense of destiny, as though my life was assigned to me by fate and had to be fullfilled. This gave me an inner security, and. though I could never prove it to myself, it proved itself to me. I did not have this certainty, it had me. Nobody could rob me of this conviction that it was enjoined upon me to do what God wanted and not what I wanted and not what I wanted. That gave me the strength to go my own way. Often I had the feeling that in all decisive matters I was no longer among men, but was alone with God. And when I was 'there', where I was no longer alone, I was outside time; I belonged to the centuries; and He who then gave answer was He who had always been, and who had been before my birth. He who always is was there. These talks with the 'Other' were my profoundest experiences: on the one hand a bloody struggle, on the other supreme ecstasy."

Editing post #7547 by Jacobus <p>"From the beginning I had a sense of destiny, as though my life was assigned to me by fate and had to be fullfilled. This gave me an inner security, and. though I could never prove it to myself, it proved itself to me. I did not have this certainty, it had me. Nobody could rob me of this conviction that it was enjoined upon me to do what God wanted and not what I wanted and not what I wanted. That gave me the strength to go my own way. Often I had the feeling that in all decisive matters I was no longer among men, but was alone with God. And when I was 'there', where I was no longer alone, I was outside time; I belonged to the centuries; and He who then gave answer was He who had always been, and who had been before my birth. He who always is was there. These talks with the 'Other' were my profoundest experiences: on the one hand a bloody struggle, on the other supreme ecstasy."</p>
Replying to post #7547 by Jacobus

	strawberry crisis enfp 7 2018/10/23 (Tue) 11:05:05 #3816
	What’s 4 about The Red Book? Recording visions and imaginative experiences because of its personal and cultural relevance is nearly an antithesis to type 4’s raw, emotive connection to its “work,” if you could even call it that. The only thing you could really try to pin 4 on is that he had these visions to begin with, but it begs the question: what’s 4 about that? And look at this from the abstract for Beebe and Shamdasani’s notes on the Red Book: “They note that the self-experiment with individual vision that Liber Novus records, without recourse to psychological jargon or preconception, reveals Jung's recognition of a need to sacrifice the hero archetype and accept responsibility for what he regarded as his complicity with the egoistic spirit that had shaped the lead-up to World War I. A sense of duty, driven by what he felt was necessary to reconnect with his soul, gave him the energy to participate actively in the imaginations that emerged through encounters with figures that appeared in his dreams and waking reveries.” It’s the same pattern of 6 that appears throughout Jung’s life, where Jung wanted to unearth the “truth,” as @edza puts it, somewhat distinguishing between exploration and construction. Funnily enough, it’s even noted that when encountering these figures in his dreams, he’d first and foremost question why they were there, implying that these impressions never meant anything meaningful to him in their purest form but rather that he needed to derive something more (in other words: assumptions, as his collectivistic, generalizing approach to analyzing people would show) from them. It’s why he’s basically the prototypical LII. Jung's fascination with these visions (the unconscious or whatever he liked to put it all under) nearly demonstrates an "emotional" nanity with him choosing to ignore that which 4s consider personally significant for the sake of attaining a deobstruent understanding of these visions, which actually avoids 4ish indulgence. And there just isn't anything to him that spells out internal disconnection? I know you like to think of 4 vs 6 as individualistic vs. collectivistic, but 4 is more related to intrinsic removal than anything, and 6 weaves questioning and critical thinking into its blankety style of filtering and concluding. But I do want to backtrack somewhat and reference the Black Books, which I think do represent 4ish unsynthesis: Shamdasani explains: "From December 1913 onward, he carried on in the same procedure: deliberately evoking a fantasy in a waking state, and then entering into it as into a drama. These fantasies may be understood as a type of dramatized thinking in pictorial form.... In retrospect, he recalled that his scientific question was to see what took place when he switched off consciousness. The example of dreams indicated the existence of background activity, and he wanted to give this a possibility of emerging, just as one does when taking mescaline." Jung recorded these deliberately evoked fantasies or visions in the "Black Books". These journals are Jung's contemporaneous clinical ledger to his "most difficult experiment", or what he later describes as "a voyage of discovery to the other pole of the world." The link to 4 here is however only represented in style rather than apparent connection. Note "deliberation"--in 4, this isn't deliberated, but naturalized. It's convincing from a perspective where the act mirrors the internal, but I would perhaps point out here that Jung's general obsessiveness with an idea that encompasses all this and reconciles it with an overall 6 side is more convincing from the Enneagram's perspective.

Editing post #3816 by strawberry crisis <p>What’s 4 about The Red Book? Recording visions and imaginative experiences because of its personal and cultural relevance is nearly an antithesis to type 4’s raw, emotive connection to its “work,” if you could even call it that. The only thing you could really try to pin 4 on is that he had these visions to begin with, but it begs the question: what’s 4 about that? <br> <br>And look at this from the abstract for Beebe and Shamdasani’s notes on the Red Book: “They note that the self-experiment with individual vision that <em>Liber Novus</em> records, without recourse to psychological jargon or preconception, reveals Jung's recognition of a need to sacrifice the hero archetype and accept responsibility for what he regarded as his complicity with the egoistic spirit that had shaped the lead-up to World War I. A sense of duty, driven by what he felt was necessary to reconnect with his soul, gave him the energy to participate actively in the imaginations that emerged through encounters with figures that appeared in his dreams and waking reveries.”<br> <br> It’s the same pattern of 6 that appears throughout Jung’s life, where Jung wanted to unearth the “truth,” as @edza puts it, somewhat distinguishing between exploration and construction. Funnily enough, it’s even noted that when encountering these figures in his dreams, he’d first and foremost question why they were there, implying that these impressions never meant anything meaningful to him in their purest form but rather that he needed to derive something more (in other words: assumptions, as his collectivistic, generalizing approach to analyzing people would show) from them. It’s why he’s basically the prototypical LII.<br> <br> Jung's fascination with these visions (the unconscious or whatever he liked to put it all under) nearly demonstrates an "emotional" nanity with him choosing to ignore that which 4s consider personally significant for the sake of attaining a deobstruent understanding of these visions, which actually <i>avoids</i> 4ish indulgence. And there just isn't anything to him that spells out internal disconnection? I know you like to think of 4 vs 6 as individualistic vs. collectivistic, but 4 is more related to intrinsic removal than anything, and 6 weaves questioning and critical thinking into its blankety style of filtering and concluding.<br><br> But I do want to backtrack somewhat and reference the Black Books, which I think do represent 4ish unsynthesis:<br><i> <br> Shamdasani explains: <br> "From December 1913 onward, he carried on in the same procedure: deliberately evoking a fantasy in a waking state, and then entering into it as into a drama. These fantasies may be understood as a type of dramatized thinking in pictorial form.... In retrospect, he recalled that his scientific question was to see what took place when he switched off consciousness. The example of dreams indicated the existence of background activity, and he wanted to give this a possibility of emerging, just as one does when taking mescaline."<br><br> Jung recorded these deliberately evoked fantasies or visions in the "Black Books". These journals are Jung's contemporaneous clinical ledger to his "most difficult experiment", or what he later describes as "a voyage of discovery to the other pole of the world."</i><br><br> The link to 4 here is however only represented in style rather than apparent connection. Note "deliberation"--in 4, this isn't deliberated, but naturalized. It's convincing from a perspective where the <i>act</i> mirrors the internal, but I would perhaps point out here that Jung's general obsessiveness with an idea that encompasses all this and reconciles it with an overall 6 side is more convincing from the Enneagram's perspective.</p>
Replying to post #3816 by strawberry crisis

date	username	vote
23/08/23 11:36	GIJOEBusta Cap	INFJ
23/05/08 15:55	Erasure	INTJ
21/02/10 14:44	Lol	INTJ
20/12/08 13:46	Tman	INTJ
20/04/24 14:06	bibliology	INFJ
19/12/23 22:20	ethan	INTP
19/12/04 18:33	Thyssen	INTJ
19/09/03 13:49	Teru Mikami	INTP
19/07/08 02:39	LadyX	INTJ
19/05/18 07:31	kawaii	INTJ
19/05/17 03:06	INTJ-2698	INFJ
19/04/14 12:44	fsninetwo	INFJ
19/01/27 14:47	Rainbel	INTJ
19/12/23 21:58	Jacobus	INTJ
19/01/15 06:40	tch	INxJ
18/11/08 14:44	twinpinks	INFJ
18/08/26 07:12	exdeath	INTP
18/06/30 07:41	fg	INTx
18/06/05 08:49	Dollar Shave Club One Wipe Scottys	INFJ
18/06/04 12:12	edza	INTJ
20/05/28 05:57	Diobono	INTJ
19/04/13 19:54	LVNA	INTP
18/05/02 04:45	Taco110	INTP
18/06/04 01:39	strawberry crisis	INTJ

date	username	vote
23/08/23 11:36	GIJOEBusta Cap	INFJ
23/05/24 12:07	Woll Smoth	INFJ
23/05/08 15:55	Erasure	INTP
20/12/16 16:08	Freaky_sage	INFJ
20/01/01 21:28	bibliology	INFJ
19/12/23 22:20	ethan	INTP
19/12/04 18:33	Thyssen	INFJ
19/09/03 13:49	Teru Mikami	INFJ
19/05/17 03:06	INTJ-2698	INFJ
19/04/14 12:44	fsninetwo	INFJ
19/01/27 21:42	tch	INFJ
19/01/27 18:23	Phantom	INFJ
19/01/27 14:48	Rainbel	INFJ
19/01/26 22:27	tman	INFJ
19/01/16 21:11	Jacobus	INFJ
18/06/30 07:39	fg	INFJ
18/06/04 12:01	Blank	INFJ

date	username	vote
23/08/23 11:36	GIJOEBusta Cap	5w6
23/05/08 15:55	Erasure	5w4
21/02/10 14:41	Lol	5w6
20/12/16 16:08	Freaky_sage	5w6
20/12/08 13:46	Tman	5w6
20/01/01 21:28	bibliology	5w4
19/12/04 18:33	Thyssen	5wb
19/09/03 13:49	Teru Mikami	5w6
19/07/08 02:39	LadyX	5w6
20/05/28 05:56	Diobono	5w6
19/05/17 03:06	INTJ-2698	5wb
19/04/14 12:44	fsninetwo	5w6
19/02/13 01:16	Flower-like	9w1
18/10/23 12:03	switchblades	5w6
18/06/30 07:40	fg	9w1
18/06/04 12:13	edza	5w6
19/08/26 13:37	LVNA	5w6
18/05/02 04:45	Taco110	5w4
18/06/11 07:46	strawberry crisis	5w6

date	username	vote
23/05/08 15:55	Erasure	so/sx
20/12/16 16:08	Freaky_sage	sx/sp
20/04/24 14:06	bibliology	sx/sp
19/12/04 18:33	Thyssen	sx/sp
19/07/08 02:39	LadyX	sp/sx
20/05/28 05:57	Diobono	sp/sx
18/06/30 07:40	fg	sp/sx
18/06/04 04:12	LVNA	sx/sp
18/05/02 04:45	Taco110	sp/sx
18/06/11 07:47	strawberry crisis	sx/sp

date	username	vote
20/01/25 04:23	bibliology	594
19/12/28 01:52	LVNA	541
19/12/04 18:33	Thyssen	594
19/08/18 07:53	fsninetwo	594
19/07/08 02:39	LadyX	594
19/05/29 03:50	fg	594
19/05/29 00:48	INTJ-2698	594

date	username	vote
23/05/24 12:07	Woll Smoth	LII
23/05/08 15:55	Erasure	IEI
21/02/10 14:41	Lol	LII
20/12/16 16:08	Freaky_sage	LII
20/01/19 19:46	zazu	LII
19/12/23 22:20	ethan	LII
19/12/04 18:33	Thyssen	LII
19/11/14 21:10	DJ	IEI
19/08/06 09:36	INTJ-2698	LII
19/05/07 14:50	Avalonia	IEI
19/01/27 18:24	Phantom	LII
19/01/27 15:30	Jacobus	ILI
19/01/27 14:47	Rainbel	LII
18/11/13 05:52	echidna1000	IEI
18/06/30 07:39	fg	LII
19/05/18 06:03	Diobono	LII
18/06/04 01:39	strawberry crisis	LII
18/06/04 12:13	edza	LII
18/05/14 06:38	Lvna	LII
18/05/11 07:19	EON	LII

date	username	vote
23/05/08 15:55	Erasure	LVEF
20/12/16 16:08	Freaky_sage	LVEF
20/03/05 22:43	Jacobus	LVEF
19/12/04 18:33	Thyssen	LVEF
19/11/13 13:37	fg	LVEF

	Jacobus INFJ 4w5 EIE 2019/12/23 (Mon) 21:59:35 #7546
	"No. 1" is LEVF, "No. 2" is VLEF

Editing post #7546 by Jacobus <p>"No. 1" is LEVF, "No. 2" is VLEF</p>
Replying to post #7546 by Jacobus