Bill Clinton ~ Sakinorva Databank

The Sakinorva Databank

Bill Clinton

American Politics

in Government, Politics, and Law

Bill Clinton ~ Sakinorva Databank

Bill Clinton

American Politics

Government, Politics, and Law

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function

ennea

variant

socio

psyche

ENFP 3

ESFP 2

3w2 7

7w6 1

so/sx 6

EIE 6

LIE 1

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total votes 36

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	Woll Smoth 2025/07/11 (Fri) 00:06:59 #10114
	Contrary to IDRlabs ESFP typing, there is actually a really strong argument that could be made for ENFP as Bill Cinton’s type. Before I get to the functions, I would like to counter some of their claims that they have made regarding Clinton. To start things off, they suggested that social psychologists are projecting their intellectual interest onto Clinton due to his high IQ, implying that Clinton himself lacks intellectual interests himself, saying "Social psychologists who work with the Big Five don’t always understand IQ as well as they should and equate it with intellectual interest, as, for example, some of Bill Clinton’s biographers have done. That’s likely because social psychologists are often high-O[peness] people themselves, so they read their own values into the analysis." I would disagree with that as there is evidence that Clinton did have an inclination towards intellectual interests (an intellectual engagement and curiosity that is separate from pure ability and intelligence): Gabriel Garcia Marquez: "During his first campaign, Clinton had mentioned that his favorite book was 'One Hundred Years of Solitude.' ... I thought he had said it simply to pull in the Latin vote [but] after greeting me on Martha's Vineyard, he at once assured me that what he said had been quite sincere. ... When we asked him what he was reading, he ... mentioned a book on the economic wars of the future, author and title unknown to me. ... He asked us what our favorite books were. ... Clinton said [one of] his was the 'Meditations of Marcus Aurelius,' and Carlos Fuentes stuck loyally to 'Absalom, Absalom,' Faulkner's stellar novel. ... Clinton, in homage to Faulkner, got to his feet and, pacing around the table, recited from memory Benji's monologue ... from 'The Sound and the Fury.'" Haynes Johnson: "Clinton likes to quote Machiavelli." Clinton: "I like long books, raced through 'War and Peace' [by Tolstoy] at 22." Clinton: "I feel like a character in a novel. I feel like somebody who is surrounded by an oppressive force that is creating a lie about me and I can't get the truth out. I feel like the character in the novel Darkness at Noon." Harold Evans: "Clinton has had a problem finding space for his books in the White House. ... He is [a reading] omnivore." Clinton: "[I would've liked to meet] Mark Twain. I would want to know what he believed and what was show." So as shown, Clinton wasn't merely intelligent; he displayed genuine intellectual interest. He referenced and quoted complex literary works and the like. He was a voracious reader, drawn to lengthy and challenging material. All of which paints the picture of a person with a active intellectual life, not just someone with high cognitive ability. So based on that, we can say that the quotes I'm about to show below are not mere projections but observations/statements that do indeed hold actual weight: Bob Woodward: "Clinton ... had an unusually broad national network of political, media, and academic friends, and displayed an obvious fascination with ideas." Bob Woodward: "He was at home with ideas." Rubenzer: "He liked pondering ideas and theories." Rubenzer: "Clinton ... took much ... pleasure in solving brain-teasing puzzles. ... Clinton was [very] much ... prone to value open-mindedness." Tom Rosenstiel: "He possesses ... a fierce thirst for knowledge and insight." Secondly, IDRlabs has stated that "Clinton’s raw intelligence is legendary, but few people ever accused him of being prone to deep introspection." I would like to contend that there were indeed people who described Clinton as "introspective": Haynes Johnson: "[Clinton] is a remarkably analytical, introspective person. To a degree that is quite stunning. ... Clinton ... was extremely, remarkably thoughtful and introspective." Jerry Tarde: "[Thomas L.] Friedman had interviewed Clinton several times before at the White House ... he found the president most expansive and even introspective." The Boston Globe: "The 42nd and 43rd presidents contrasted in many ways. ... Clinton was introspective and complex [while] Bush [was] breezy and unburdened by nuance." Steven M. Gillon: "Clinton was introspective, full of doubt and uncertainty." So as shown, there were indeed people who described Clinton as introspective so it's important to recognize that the idea of him "not exhibit[ing] a preference for introspection" is far from being something that is unanimously agreed upon. So while IDRlabs suggests that Clinton does not demonstrate a tendency toward introspection, numerous accounts have challenged this notion. IDRlabs compares Clinton with Obama, saying "Barack Obama, by wide agreement, has a very high level of introspection, but has often been faulted for being indecisive and 'stuck in his own head' for this reason." It's interesting that they mention this comparison, considering Clinton has also faced criticism for similar things as stated here: Bob Woodward: "Clinton would not fully commit to run. ... He set August as a personal deadline for a final decision, but the deadline slipped. Clinton had no campaign manager and not much organization. He appeared locked in a perpetual debate and argument with himself and with dozens of friends and advisers. His thinking never seemed to go in a straight line. He was unable to bring his deliberations to any resolution." Los Angeles Times: "Clinton had written a speech and debated the pros and cons endlessly with anyone who had an opinion. But right up to the last moment, not even his closest aides knew which way he would go. ... Early in his career Clinton often appeared flatly indecisive." New York Times: "In mainstream journalism, and even more so in popular entertainment, President Clinton is routinely depicted [as] a chronically indecisive man." Why Ne over Se: Now onto the actual functions themselves. It is my contention that his indecisiveness (at least in part) is rooted in his Ne. Don't worry, I won't bore you guys to death by bringing up the just previous mentioned quotes regarding his indecisiveness (those quotes were mostly counter arguments to challenge the idea that he was decisive if you get what I mean) because I have a quote that I think better directly illustrates his potential Ne: Bob Woodard: "Clinton was even a step above Carter [in that] he could 'correlate' various ideas and issues. In many respects, Clinton was well suited to the presidency. He had a superior, inquisitive mind, especially when compared to Reagan, and was capable of genuine vision, especially when compared to Bush. But the very discord or range of opinion that Clinton craved in making his decisions often got him bogged down. Bentsen once described Clinton as the 'meetingest' fellow he’d ever seen. The very fact [is] that he wanted debate. ... The war for Clinton’s soul, that great struggle over which ideas and approach to use to guide the nation, continued unabated." So as illustrated by Bob Woodward, Clinton, with his "inquisitive mind", was someone who "craved" (which is a important word here) a wide range of perspectives before making decisions to the point of getting "bogged down." As Mary Arrington has said in the article "ESFP vs. ENFP, Part 2", "Because of this focus on multiple possible perspectives on reality at the same time, ENPs are actually quite poor at dealing with situations where it is necessary to engage with factual reality as it is happening here and now." Se types can also be interested in other perspectives, yes, but they typically don't get "bogged down" by them. It is also reasonable to assume that his "struggle over which ideas and approach to use to guide the nation" comes from Ne's tendency to, as said by IDRlabs, "not subsume or reject the individual component that makes up the whole but aim to afford each its own place in the overall unity." IDRlabs implies that Clinton lacked the transcendental aspects of Ne but I disagree with this. First lets see what IDRlabs meant by "transcendental" with regard to Ne: "Ne types may not even recognize that they have it in themselves. But it is nevertheless there and stems from the fact that Ne is bound to always be dissatisfied with the world in its current state. In the words of Isabel Myers, the Ne types 'regard the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary.' ... The escape from the status quo is worth more to the Ne type than the world as we know it." I think this very much applies to Clinton, he was not someone who was at home in his current context but sought to go beyond it: Bob Woodward: "But Paster was, once again, amazed at Clinton’s willingness to allow these extended debates where they essentially talked to death the inevitable. Clinton was always trying to pick out a new course, move the debate or the policy slightly. The dynamic had a pattern. Clinton, unaccepting of the conventional wisdom, especially about Congress, would test the edges of what was possible, stretching the boundaries of the Washington and congressional playing field." So as shown, Clinton "was always trying to pick out a new course" and "unaccepting of the conventional wisdom" and had a desire to "test the edges of what was possible", all of which paints the picture of someone with tendency to look beyond the immediate and explore novel solutions and approaches (the transcendental quality you guys talked about). The willingness to engage in "extended debates" can also be linked to Ne's comfort with exploring various theoretical angles, as well as van der Hoop's observation that Ne finds self-expression easy, which could manifest in prolonged discussions. His divergence from the status quo got to a point where leaders around the world at the time called some of his initiatives "novel, bizarre and unprecedented" and "something like a UFO" as shown here: The Washington Post: "French President Francois Mitterrand and German Chancellor Helmut Kohl were quoted by aides as saying they could not believe Clinton wanted to affix his name to [his initiative]. Calling the plan 'novel, bizarre and unprecedented,' spokesman Jean Musitelli said Mitterrand judged it to be 'something like a UFO.'" Another way to differentiate Se and Ne (or S vs N in general) is that Se stays with the object while Ne bypasses the object. As said in the IDRlabs article "A Definition of Se and Si", "Intuition is not Sensation with an extra layer: Intuition oversteps the object, while Sensation remains with it." Clinton seemed to be more geared towards always moving beyond the initial data: Bob Woodward: "Stephanopoulos was practically jumping out of his skin. He had seen Clinton act like this before; disliking, discarding, or wanting to change what he read. [Clinton's] initial reaction was always to ... force more discussion and debate." ("Always" being a key word here as it indicates that this was something habitual for Clinton as opposed to something that was just a one-off.) Another point for Ne was his verbosity and long-windedness. Yes, I am aware that Se types can be talkative too but overall the tendency to be loquacious sounds more Ne than Se: Rubenzer: "Clinton was very talkative, wordy, and verbose." Time Magazine: "[He was] notoriously long winded." Politico: "[He was] known for his long-winded and meandering speeches." One could draw parallels with this and Fidel Castro and Muammar Gaddafi (both ENFPs), both of whom were also known for their long winded conversational style and speeches. Final Note Okay so this last part is going to be the weakest part of my argument but it's still something to consider. In the IDRlabs ENFP description it says, "The ENFP will naturally see things from the point of view of the outsiders and seek to champion their cause. ENFPs tend to be incredibly accepting of people, even accepting of those who may have drastically different stances on things than they do." Steven M. Gillon: "He enjoyed talking to everyone, but had a special affinity for reaching out to people who were different, or somehow out of the mainstream."

Editing post #10114 by Woll Smoth Contrary to IDRlabs ESFP typing, there is actually a really strong argument that could be made for ENFP as Bill Cinton’s type. Before I get to the functions, I would like to counter some of their claims that they have made regarding Clinton. To start things off, they suggested that social psychologists are projecting their intellectual interest onto Clinton due to his high IQ, implying that Clinton himself lacks intellectual interests himself, saying "Social psychologists who work with the Big Five don’t always understand IQ as well as they should and equate it with intellectual interest, as, for example, some of Bill Clinton’s biographers have done. That’s likely because social psychologists are often high-O[peness] people themselves, so they read their own values into the analysis." I would disagree with that as there is evidence that Clinton did have an inclination towards intellectual interests (an intellectual engagement and curiosity that is separate from pure ability and intelligence): Gabriel Garcia Marquez: "During his first campaign, Clinton had mentioned that his favorite book was 'One Hundred Years of Solitude.' ... I thought he had said it simply to pull in the Latin vote [but] after greeting me on Martha's Vineyard, he at once assured me that what he said had been quite sincere. ... When we asked him what he was reading, he ... mentioned a book on the economic wars of the future, author and title unknown to me. ... He asked us what our favorite books were. ... Clinton said [one of] his was the 'Meditations of Marcus Aurelius,' and Carlos Fuentes stuck loyally to 'Absalom, Absalom,' Faulkner's stellar novel. ... Clinton, in homage to Faulkner, got to his feet and, pacing around the table, recited from memory Benji's monologue ... from 'The Sound and the Fury.'" Haynes Johnson: "Clinton likes to quote Machiavelli." Clinton: "I like long books, raced through 'War and Peace' [by Tolstoy] at 22." Clinton: "I feel like a character in a novel. I feel like somebody who is surrounded by an oppressive force that is creating a lie about me and I can't get the truth out. I feel like the character in the novel Darkness at Noon." Harold Evans: "Clinton has had a problem finding space for his books in the White House. ... He is [a reading] omnivore." Clinton: "[I would've liked to meet] Mark Twain. I would want to know what he believed and what was show." So as shown, Clinton wasn't merely intelligent; he displayed genuine intellectual interest. He referenced and quoted complex literary works and the like. He was a voracious reader, drawn to lengthy and challenging material. All of which paints the picture of a person with a active intellectual life, not just someone with high cognitive ability. So based on that, we can say that the quotes I'm about to show below are not mere projections but observations/statements that do indeed hold actual weight: Bob Woodward: "Clinton ... had an unusually broad national network of political, media, and academic friends, and displayed an obvious fascination with ideas." Bob Woodward: "He was at home with ideas." Rubenzer: "He liked pondering ideas and theories." Rubenzer: "Clinton ... took much ... pleasure in solving brain-teasing puzzles. ... Clinton was [very] much ... prone to value open-mindedness." Tom Rosenstiel: "He possesses ... a fierce thirst for knowledge and insight." Secondly, IDRlabs has stated that "Clinton’s raw intelligence is legendary, but few people ever accused him of being prone to deep introspection." I would like to contend that there were indeed people who described Clinton as "introspective": Haynes Johnson: "[Clinton] is a remarkably analytical, introspective person. To a degree that is quite stunning. ... Clinton ... was extremely, remarkably thoughtful and introspective." Jerry Tarde: "[Thomas L.] Friedman had interviewed Clinton several times before at the White House ... he found the president most expansive and even introspective." The Boston Globe: "The 42nd and 43rd presidents contrasted in many ways. ... Clinton was introspective and complex [while] Bush [was] breezy and unburdened by nuance." Steven M. Gillon: "Clinton was introspective, full of doubt and uncertainty." So as shown, there were indeed people who described Clinton as introspective so it's important to recognize that the idea of him "not exhibit[ing] a preference for introspection" is far from being something that is unanimously agreed upon. So while IDRlabs suggests that Clinton does not demonstrate a tendency toward introspection, numerous accounts have challenged this notion. IDRlabs compares Clinton with Obama, saying "Barack Obama, by wide agreement, has a very high level of introspection, but has often been faulted for being indecisive and 'stuck in his own head' for this reason." It's interesting that they mention this comparison, considering Clinton has also faced criticism for similar things as stated here: Bob Woodward: "Clinton would not fully commit to run. ... He set August as a personal deadline for a final decision, but the deadline slipped. Clinton had no campaign manager and not much organization. He appeared locked in a perpetual debate and argument with himself and with dozens of friends and advisers. His thinking never seemed to go in a straight line. He was unable to bring his deliberations to any resolution." Los Angeles Times: "Clinton had written a speech and debated the pros and cons endlessly with anyone who had an opinion. But right up to the last moment, not even his closest aides knew which way he would go. ... Early in his career Clinton often appeared flatly indecisive." New York Times: "In mainstream journalism, and even more so in popular entertainment, President Clinton is routinely depicted [as] a chronically indecisive man." Why Ne over Se: Now onto the actual functions themselves. It is my contention that his indecisiveness (at least in part) is rooted in his Ne. Don't worry, I won't bore you guys to death by bringing up the just previous mentioned quotes regarding his indecisiveness (those quotes were mostly counter arguments to challenge the idea that he was decisive if you get what I mean) because I have a quote that I think better directly illustrates his potential Ne: Bob Woodard: "Clinton was even a step above Carter [in that] he could 'correlate' various ideas and issues. In many respects, Clinton was well suited to the presidency. He had a superior, inquisitive mind, especially when compared to Reagan, and was capable of genuine vision, especially when compared to Bush. But the very discord or range of opinion that Clinton craved in making his decisions often got him bogged down. Bentsen once described Clinton as the 'meetingest' fellow he’d ever seen. The very fact [is] that he wanted debate. ... The war for Clinton’s soul, that great struggle over which ideas and approach to use to guide the nation, continued unabated." So as illustrated by Bob Woodward, Clinton, with his "inquisitive mind", was someone who "craved" (which is a important word here) a wide range of perspectives before making decisions to the point of getting "bogged down." As Mary Arrington has said in the article "ESFP vs. ENFP, Part 2", "Because of this focus on multiple possible perspectives on reality at the same time, ENPs are actually quite poor at dealing with situations where it is necessary to engage with factual reality as it is happening here and now." Se types can also be interested in other perspectives, yes, but they typically don't get "bogged down" by them. It is also reasonable to assume that his "struggle over which ideas and approach to use to guide the nation" comes from Ne's tendency to, as said by IDRlabs, "not subsume or reject the individual component that makes up the whole but aim to afford each its own place in the overall unity." IDRlabs implies that Clinton lacked the transcendental aspects of Ne but I disagree with this. First lets see what IDRlabs meant by "transcendental" with regard to Ne: "Ne types may not even recognize that they have it in themselves. But it is nevertheless there and stems from the fact that Ne is bound to always be dissatisfied with the world in its current state. In the words of Isabel Myers, the Ne types 'regard the immediate situation as a prison from which escape is urgently necessary.' ... The escape from the status quo is worth more to the Ne type than the world as we know it." I think this very much applies to Clinton, he was not someone who was at home in his current context but sought to go beyond it: Bob Woodward: "But Paster was, once again, amazed at Clinton’s willingness to allow these extended debates where they essentially talked to death the inevitable. Clinton was always trying to pick out a new course, move the debate or the policy slightly. The dynamic had a pattern. Clinton, unaccepting of the conventional wisdom, especially about Congress, would test the edges of what was possible, stretching the boundaries of the Washington and congressional playing field." So as shown, Clinton "was always trying to pick out a new course" and "unaccepting of the conventional wisdom" and had a desire to "test the edges of what was possible", all of which paints the picture of someone with tendency to look beyond the immediate and explore novel solutions and approaches (the transcendental quality you guys talked about). The willingness to engage in "extended debates" can also be linked to Ne's comfort with exploring various theoretical angles, as well as van der Hoop's observation that Ne finds self-expression easy, which could manifest in prolonged discussions. His divergence from the status quo got to a point where leaders around the world at the time called some of his initiatives "novel, bizarre and unprecedented" and "something like a UFO" as shown here: The Washington Post: "French President Francois Mitterrand and German Chancellor Helmut Kohl were quoted by aides as saying they could not believe Clinton wanted to affix his name to [his initiative]. Calling the plan 'novel, bizarre and unprecedented,' spokesman Jean Musitelli said Mitterrand judged it to be 'something like a UFO.'" Another way to differentiate Se and Ne (or S vs N in general) is that Se stays with the object while Ne bypasses the object. As said in the IDRlabs article "A Definition of Se and Si", "Intuition is not Sensation with an extra layer: Intuition oversteps the object, while Sensation remains with it." Clinton seemed to be more geared towards always moving beyond the initial data: Bob Woodward: "Stephanopoulos was practically jumping out of his skin. He had seen Clinton act like this before; disliking, discarding, or wanting to change what he read. [Clinton's] initial reaction was always to ... force more discussion and debate." ("Always" being a key word here as it indicates that this was something habitual for Clinton as opposed to something that was just a one-off.) Another point for Ne was his verbosity and long-windedness. Yes, I am aware that Se types can be talkative too but overall the tendency to be loquacious sounds more Ne than Se: Rubenzer: "Clinton was very talkative, wordy, and verbose." Time Magazine: "[He was] notoriously long winded." Politico: "[He was] known for his long-winded and meandering speeches." One could draw parallels with this and Fidel Castro and Muammar Gaddafi (both ENFPs), both of whom were also known for their long winded conversational style and speeches. Final Note Okay so this last part is going to be the weakest part of my argument but it's still something to consider. In the IDRlabs ENFP description it says, "The ENFP will naturally see things from the point of view of the outsiders and seek to champion their cause. ENFPs tend to be incredibly accepting of people, even accepting of those who may have drastically different stances on things than they do." Steven M. Gillon: "He enjoyed talking to everyone, but had a special affinity for reaching out to people who were different, or somehow out of the mainstream."
Replying to post #10114 by Woll Smoth

date	username	vote
22/08/01 12:08	rock and roll	ESFP
25/07/20 19:48	Woll Smoth	ENP
22/03/10 01:20	GIJOEBusta Cap	ESFP
19/03/25 04:55	fg	ENFP
19/03/24 23:22	tman	ENFP
18/09/27 01:14	LadyX	ESFP
18/05/02 03:19	Taco110	ESFP

date	username	vote
25/07/11 00:31	Woll Smoth	ENFP
22/08/01 12:08	rock and roll	ESFP
22/03/10 01:20	GIJOEBusta Cap	ESFP
19/03/24 23:22	tman	ENFP
19/03/25 04:55	fg	ENFP

date	username	vote
25/08/07 22:35	Woll Smoth	3w2
22/08/01 12:08	rock and roll	3w2
22/03/10 01:20	GIJOEBusta Cap	3w2
19/03/24 23:22	tman	3w2
18/09/27 01:14	LadyX	3w2
18/05/14 04:25	fg	3w2
18/05/02 03:19	Taco110	3w2

date	username	vote
22/08/01 12:08	rock and roll	so/sx
22/03/10 01:20	GIJOEBusta Cap	so/sx
19/03/24 23:24	tman	so/sx
18/09/27 01:14	LadyX	so/sx
18/05/14 04:25	fg	so/sx
18/05/02 03:19	Taco110	so/sx

date	username	vote
25/08/04 22:09	Woll Smoth	379
19/03/25 00:05	LadyX	379
19/03/24 23:24	tman	379

date	username	vote
25/07/25 20:39	nicotineseries	EIE
22/08/01 12:08	rock and roll	EIE
22/03/10 01:20	GIJOEBusta Cap	EIE
22/03/01 22:38	Woll Smoth	EIE
19/05/06 23:55	Avalonia	EIE
18/08/14 10:12	switchblades	EIE
18/10/14 07:55	fg	LIE