Bernie Sanders ~ Sakinorva Databank

The Sakinorva Databank

Bernie Sanders

American Politics

in Government, Politics, and Law

Bernie Sanders ~ Sakinorva Databank

Bernie Sanders

American Politics

Government, Politics, and Law

e

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n

s

f

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p

j

function

ennea

variant

socio

psyche

ENTJ 5

1w2 8

8w9 3

4wb 1

so/sp 6

LII 4

ILE 4

LIE 3

LVFE 1

VLFE 1

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3

4

5

6

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8

9

1

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e

x

a

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total votes 52

13

5

12

6

5

11

2

1

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	Taco110 Ni-Se you'll see ST 2021/02/25 (Thu) 22:56:10 #8656
	Either Se-polr or Fi-polr could fit here, but I don't see the EP temperament. Plus, he gave his power away way too much (ie bending the knee to the DNC that fucked him over twice, letting BLM members take over HIS podium and disrupting his rally, not asserting when he could assert etc.) All of these seem to be examples of glaring Se-polr more so than Fi-polr.

Editing post #8656 by Taco110 Either Se-polr or Fi-polr could fit here, but I don't see the EP temperament. Plus, he gave his power away way too much (ie bending the knee to the DNC that fucked him over twice, letting BLM members take over HIS podium and disrupting his rally, not asserting when he could assert etc.) All of these seem to be examples of glaring Se-polr more so than Fi-polr.
Replying to post #8656 by Taco110

	strawberry crisis enfp 7 2019/08/02 (Fri) 14:34:47 #6856
	No jokes here! Compare him to other Ones in politics and you should be able to recognize very stark differences in thought. Justin Amash is a good example of a One—notice how somebody like him is centered around undying ideological principles divorced from the power involved in our political climate. Somebody like him would recognize oppression and power dynamics as it relates to their political philosophy... principles first, context second. This is why an Eight’s take on justice differs: it looks at the situation first and approaches power dynamics viscerally. Ones strive for perfection—you can see this very clearly in how Ones practically never deviate from their philosophy (and theoretically speaking - when they do, there is a specific defense mechanism at play surrounding their idea of righteousness) and are uncompromising even in the face of power... because they simply do not recognize (i.e. react to) it. This isn’t consistent with what Sanders does; he reacts to power and uses it to guide his moral compass.

Editing post #6856 by strawberry crisis <p>No jokes here! Compare him to other Ones in politics and you should be able to recognize very stark differences in thought. Justin Amash is a good example of a One—notice how somebody like him is centered around undying ideological principles divorced from the power involved in our political climate. Somebody like him would recognize oppression and power dynamics as it relates to their political philosophy... principles first, context second. This is why an Eight’s take on justice differs: it looks at the situation first and approaches power dynamics viscerally. Ones strive for perfection—you can see this very clearly in how Ones practically never deviate from their philosophy (and theoretically speaking - when they do, there is a specific defense mechanism at play surrounding their idea of righteousness) and are uncompromising even in the face of power... because they simply do not recognize (i.e. react to) it. This isn’t consistent with what Sanders does; he reacts to power and uses it to guide his moral compass.</p>
Replying to post #6856 by strawberry crisis

	strawberry crisis enfp 7 2019/08/02 (Fri) 00:03:22 #6841
	Sanders is not an ENTJ, and nor is he a 1. I understand why somebody would think so when considering how uncompromising he has been about his political agenda and how he has been communicating the same message, but neither of these things actually mean "J" without the extra context needed to show that there is a "judging mindset" behind them. The extra context I am referring to--his style, his message, his focus--instead reveals a personality that aligns itself more with a P preference. Being obstinate or uncompromising has never meant "judging," and Sanders is a good example of how an obstinate perceiver looks; in very simple terms, judging seeks control and closure, perceiving seeks to keep things open. Though Myers-Briggs doesn't extend super far in exploring how these two concepts show in our personalities, the notion that judgers would prefer to work within a system and work step-by-step to make sure that conditions have been settled along the way while perceivers would by contrast prefer to look outside a system and reach out directly to goals and needs is not absurd, and I think it frames why Sanders and his radical vision speak more to a perceiver-like way of seeing things; his political career backs this up, as Sanders seems to have always deprioritized that political pragmatism demonstrated by his colleagues in exchange for pushing out ideas. But none of this is a great case for a P preference by itself -- however, we can make a good case for it by trying to deconstruct what Sanders believes in and how that ties into his unconventiality. Having a radical way of doing things doesn't make you a perceiver, and I would hate to implicitly claim that. An easier way to understand why Sanders isn't a judger is perhaps by explaining why he isn't a 1: Sanders' political philosophy is centered around relieving oppression and redistributing power. The 1 framework puts things into absolute moral rights and wrongs--what is fair and correct, what is righteous and perfect, what is logical and reasonable. It is an ideological type; Ones connect to their idea of justice through reason. Let's contrast this with the 8 mindset, where everything is about power: recognizing where power is, who has the potential to be powerful, who the weak and oppressed are, who requires protection from those in power, and (most importantly) how power is imbalanced and should be balanced out. This is not an ideological type; Eights connect to their idea of justice viscerally. I see injustice--I see an imbalance of power--therefore I must step in to balance it out. A fun little thing to entertain: if we see Sanders' philosophy through the lens of an Eight, we get an earful into a little bit of droll commentary about the current state of affairs... Sanders' ideas aren't changing because these are his rock-solid ideological beliefs, but because the injustices that Sanders has paid attention to still haven't been resolved. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/bernie-sanders-brutally-honest-mayoral-memos/ -- I found this recently and thought that it did well to support the perceiver & 8 argument. Bernie Sanders doesn't seem to be caught up in plans, policies, and other judgery perpheries, but rather what problems exist and what power he must muster (ha) to combat these problems. His rhetoric is indicative of the same kind of thought process, where he recognizes where power is concentrated and how he can work to fight against it--he does not defend his ideas on a debate stage through meeting reasoned criticisms but instead by highlighting the injustice that overrides these criticisms ("It simply must be done because power has been distributed in a way that is unfair to everyone involved, and that's the bottom line").

Editing post #6841 by strawberry crisis <p>Sanders is not an ENTJ, and nor is he a 1. I understand why somebody would think so when considering how uncompromising he has been about his political agenda and how he has been communicating the same message, <em>but</em> neither of these things actually mean "J" without the extra context needed to show that there is a "judging mindset" behind them. The extra context I am referring to--his style, his message, his focus--instead reveals a personality that aligns itself more with a P preference. Being obstinate or uncompromising has never meant "judging," and Sanders is a good example of how an obstinate perceiver looks; in very simple terms, judging seeks control and closure, perceiving seeks to keep things open. Though Myers-Briggs doesn't extend super far in exploring how these two concepts show in our personalities, the notion that judgers would prefer to work within a system and work step-by-step to make sure that conditions have been settled along the way while perceivers would by contrast prefer to look outside a system and reach out directly to goals and needs is not absurd, and I think it frames why Sanders and his radical vision speak more to a perceiver-like way of seeing things; his political career backs this up, as Sanders seems to have always deprioritized that political pragmatism demonstrated by his colleagues in exchange for pushing out ideas.</p> <p>But none of this is a great case for a P preference by itself -- however, we can make a good case for it by trying to deconstruct <em>what</em> Sanders believes in and<em> </em>how that ties into his unconventiality. Having a radical way of doing things doesn't make you a perceiver, and I would hate to implicitly claim that. An easier way to understand why Sanders isn't a judger is perhaps by explaining why he isn't a 1: Sanders' political philosophy is centered around relieving oppression and redistributing power. The 1 framework puts things into absolute moral rights and wrongs--what is fair and correct, what is righteous and perfect, what is logical and reasonable. It is an ideological type; Ones connect to their idea of justice through <em>reason</em>. Let's contrast this with the 8 mindset, where everything is about <em>power</em>: recognizing where power is, who has the potential to be powerful, who the weak and oppressed are, who requires protection from those in power, and (most importantly) how power is imbalanced and should be balanced out. This is <em>not</em> an ideological type; Eights connect to their idea of justice <em>viscerally</em>. I see injustice--I see an imbalance of power--therefore I must step in to balance it out. A fun little thing to entertain: if we see Sanders' philosophy through the lens of an Eight, we get an earful into a little bit of droll commentary about the current state of affairs... Sanders' ideas aren't changing because these are his rock-solid ideological beliefs, but because the injustices that Sanders has paid attention to still haven't been resolved.</p> <p>https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/05/bernie-sanders-brutally-honest-mayoral-memos/ -- I found this recently and thought that it did well to support the perceiver & 8 argument. Bernie Sanders doesn't seem to be caught up in plans, policies, and other judgery perpheries, but rather what problems exist and what power he must muster (ha) to combat these problems.</p> <p>His rhetoric is indicative of the same kind of thought process, where he recognizes where power is concentrated and how he can work to fight against it--he does not defend his ideas on a debate stage through meeting reasoned criticisms but instead by highlighting the injustice that overrides these criticisms ("It simply must be done because power has been distributed in a way that is unfair to everyone involved, and that's the bottom line").</p>
Replying to post #6841 by strawberry crisis

date	username	vote
21/07/08 22:22	bibliology	ENTJ
20/07/29 01:00	Skippy Munchkin	INTJ
20/02/05 15:30	Jacobus	ENTJ
19/05/25 00:02	jt	ENTJ
19/03/31 15:16	~snow~	ENTJ
19/02/26 18:09	strawberry crisis	ENTP
20/08/26 17:45	Tman	ENTJ
18/11/14 19:48	tch	ENTJ
18/11/09 13:01	twinpinks	ENFJ
18/09/27 01:39	LadyX	ENTJ
18/07/10 04:24	scumfuc	ENTJ
21/02/25 22:45	Taco110	ENTJ

date	username	vote
22/03/22 01:24	Woll Smoth	ENTJ
19/02/25 18:11	tman	ENTJ
19/02/11 20:28	Taco110	ENTJ
19/01/30 14:07	tch	ENTJ
18/05/12 05:09	fg	ENTJ

date	username	vote
20/10/23 05:46	Diobono	8w9
20/09/05 13:51	Amber	1w2
20/05/04 17:25	bibliology	1w2
20/02/05 15:30	Jacobus	1w2
19/08/02 04:51	jt	4wb
19/02/26 23:45	LVNA	8w9
19/02/26 18:09	strawberry crisis	8w9
19/02/25 18:11	tman	1w2
18/09/27 01:39	LadyX	1w2
18/07/10 04:24	scumfuc	1w2
18/05/12 05:09	fg	1w2
18/05/02 03:18	Taco110	1w2

date	username	vote
20/05/04 17:25	bibliology	so/sp
19/08/02 11:30	typometrics.tumblr	so/sp
19/07/06 05:54	tman	so/sp
18/09/27 01:39	LadyX	so/sp
18/05/12 05:09	fg	so/sp
18/05/02 03:18	Taco110	so/sp

date	username	vote
19/10/30 17:17	strawberry crisis	826
19/08/31 01:20	LadyX	152
19/07/18 15:56	Taco110	152
19/03/31 16:33	ResoluteSoul	251
19/01/06 03:18	zethmal	xxx

date	username	vote
22/09/14 23:16	Woll Smoth	LII
21/02/25 22:45	Taco110	LII
20/10/23 05:46	Diobono	ILE
20/09/05 13:51	Amber	LII
20/08/26 17:14	spaceynyc	LIE
19/10/30 17:27	strawberry crisis	ILE
19/08/04 02:44	LVNA	ILE
19/08/02 11:25	typometrics.tumblr	ILE
19/07/06 01:54	tman	LIE
18/09/14 11:52	fg	LII
18/07/10 04:24	scumfuc	LIE

date	username	vote
20/03/14 02:35	LadyX	LVFE
20/02/26 01:36	Tman	VLFE

date	username	vote
20/02/26 00:50	LadyX	HEXACO