Frank Castle "Punisher" ~ Sakinorva Databank

The Sakinorva Databank

Frank Castle "Punisher"

Daredevil

in Film and Television

Frank Castle "Punisher" ~ Sakinorva Databank

Frank Castle "Punisher"

Daredevil

Film and Television

e

i

n

s

f

t

p

j

function

ennea

variant

socio

psyche

ISTJ 3

ISFJ 2

6w5 3

8w9 1

sp/sx 4

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

1

h

e

x

a

c

o

total votes 20

7

5

4

4

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	fiddlediddle INFJ 1w9 IEI - Fe 2018/10/28 (Sun) 12:56:20 #3867
	The Punisher is usually an ISTP in the comics but I'm certain this version is an ISFJ. He demonstrates Fe-Ti very clearly. Doesn't try to force his ideals onto Daredevil but instead tries to get him to understand (Fe-Ti > Fi). Doesn't tell Daredevil to fuck off when he's told not to kill (no evidence of violation of Fi codes) and complies instead (even if he makes a joke and calls him "altar boy") and comes to genuinely respect him in the end (says he would've been "one hell of a Marine"). Seems like a family man who when it comes down to it puts his loved ones above him and is pretty good at interpersonal skills. Stuck in the horrors of the past so Si. I can't see Te-Fi in him. I haven't seen Punisher in a while (great show by the way) so I can't really back up this typing as well as I usually do.

Editing post #3867 by fiddlediddle <p>The Punisher is usually an ISTP in the comics but I'm certain this version is an ISFJ.</p> <p> </p> <p>He demonstrates Fe-Ti very clearly. Doesn't try to force his ideals onto Daredevil but instead tries to get him to understand (Fe-Ti > Fi). Doesn't tell Daredevil to fuck off when he's told not to kill (no evidence of violation of Fi codes) and complies instead (even if he makes a joke and calls him "altar boy") and comes to genuinely respect him in the end (says he would've been "one hell of a Marine"). Seems like a family man who when it comes down to it puts his loved ones above him and is pretty good at interpersonal skills. Stuck in the horrors of the past so Si.</p> <p> </p> <p>I can't see Te-Fi in him.</p> <p> </p> <p>I haven't seen Punisher in a while (great show by the way) so I can't really back up this typing as well as I usually do.</p> <p> </p>
Replying to post #3867 by fiddlediddle

Teru Mikami 2018/06/30 (Sat) 12:19:59 #1577
Combining variants with enneagram is a bad idea and that source is shit, barely anyone fits into those descriptions and when you do look at them individually you get weird results, he does seek control (just watch the fucking punisher) so much to say that it's his core motivation, to be Sx-dom you need to be interested in one-to-one contacts and attracting partners (seriously?) while Sp makes for independence and personal satisfaction and So for social status and groups, you can judge for yourself what he fits into most

Editing post #1577 by Teru Mikami <p>Combining variants with enneagram is a bad idea and that source is shit, barely anyone fits into those descriptions and when you do look at them individually you get weird results, he does seek control (just watch the fucking punisher) so much to say that it's his core motivation, to be Sx-dom you need to be interested in one-to-one contacts and attracting partners (seriously?) while Sp makes for independence and personal satisfaction and So for social status and groups, you can judge for yourself what he fits into most</p>
Replying to post #1577 by Teru Mikami

Teru Mikami 2018/06/30 (Sat) 12:12:06 #1576
he doesn't defend anything, he goes after people over a grudge, you're the one twisting my words since i just implied it, and there's nothing "not T" about going after people rather than fighting corruption. You don't understand what feeling means, here's the actual criteria rather than your own made up system: I have a people or communications orientation. I am concerned with harmony and nervous when it is missing. I look for what is important to others and express concern for others. I make decisions with my heart and want to be compassionate. I believe being tactful is more important than telling the "cold" truth. Sometimes I miss seeing or communicating the "hard truth" of situations. I am sometimes experienced by others as too idealistic, mushy, or indirect. None of this applies to him, he's not a feeler.

Editing post #1576 by Teru Mikami <p>he doesn't defend anything, he goes after people over a grudge, you're the one twisting my words since i just implied it, and there's nothing "not T" about going after people rather than fighting corruption. You don't understand what feeling means, here's the <a href="https://www.myersbriggs.org/my-mbti-personality-type/mbti-basics/thinking-or-feeling.htm?bhcp=1">actual criteria</a> rather than your own made up system:</p> <p> </p> <p><em>I have a people or communications orientation.</em></p> <p><em>I am concerned with harmony and nervous when it is missing.</em></p> <p><em>I look for what is important to others and express concern for others.</em></p> <p><em>I make decisions with my heart and want to be compassionate.</em></p> <p><em>I believe being tactful is more important than telling the "cold" truth.</em></p> <p><em>Sometimes I miss seeing or communicating the "hard truth" of situations.</em></p> <p><em>I am sometimes experienced by others as too idealistic, mushy, or indirect.</em></p> <p> </p> <p>None of this applies to him, he's not a feeler. </p>
Replying to post #1576 by Teru Mikami

	fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST 2018/06/30 (Sat) 12:03:24 #1575
	"Type 8: The Protector Self-preservation: Satisfactory Survival – The Survivalist In this subtype, the Eight’s aggressiveness and excess are channeled into physical survival and material security. In a hostile world, the self-preservation Eight will either win or go down fighting. Fiercely protective of friends and family, this subtype can establish more territory and stockpile more supplies than anyone, but in a friendly world, may miss the boat altogether. Social: Friendship/Social Causes – The Group Leader/Gang Leader A sense of powerlessness or injustice is overcome by being part of an aligned group, usually in a leadership role. This subtype’s anger and aggression are mediated by the group’s needs, and harnessed for a common agenda. Loyalty to friends and social causes take precedence over personal feelings and needs. One-to-One: Possession/Surrender – The Commander A one-to-one Eight uses forcefulness and self-assertion to possess (or control) a partner or significant others. At times unable to adapt or let go, a strong enough yearning to be met fully can help this subtype let go of control and turn it over to a partner." " Self-preservation: Warmth – The Family Loyalist Overcoming fear by making connections and agreements with others through personal warmth, this subtype doesn’t want to be left out in the cold. Experiencing a lack of warmth or a threat to their security early in life can create a fear of taking risks and a need to stay within well-known boundaries. Social: Duty – The Social Guardian Being clear about one’s role in the group or society is an overriding concern. To overcome fear and avoid rejection, this subtype needs to know the rules and create clear agreements with friends and colleagues. Yet there may be ambivalence about belonging. Doing one’s duty can be both a calling and a burden. One-to-One: Strength or Beauty – The Warrior The first style is based on overcoming or avoiding fear through willpower and feats of physical strength and bravery, or through the strength of one’s intellect and fierce ideological positions. In the second style, fear and self-doubt are handled by channeling one’s idealism and keen perceptiveness into creating beauty in the environment. This helps create some stability and control." he did not fit to 8sx criteria (don't seek control), don't fit to 8 so (because he is a lone wolf, a 8so would lead other in his fight for his definition of justice),don't fit to 8sp (because survy is not the core of the character). the only description that fit to him is 6sx . so he is 6sx.

Editing post #1575 by fg <p> </p> <p>"Type 8: The Protector</p> <p><strong>Self-preservation: </strong><strong>Satisfactory Survival – </strong><em>The Survivalist</em><br /> In this subtype, the Eight’s aggressiveness and excess are channeled into physical survival and material security. In a hostile world, the self-preservation Eight will either win or go down fighting. Fiercely protective of friends and family, this subtype can establish more territory and stockpile more supplies than anyone, but in a friendly world, may miss the boat altogether.</p> <p><strong>Social: </strong><strong>Friendship/Social Causes – <em>The Group Leader/</em></strong><em>Gang Leader</em><br /> A sense of powerlessness or injustice is overcome by being part of an aligned group, usually in a leadership role. This subtype’s anger and aggression are mediated by the group’s needs, and harnessed for a common agenda. Loyalty to friends and social causes take precedence over personal feelings and needs.</p> <p><strong>One-to-One: </strong><strong>Possession/Surrender –</strong> <em>The Commander</em><br /> A one-to-one Eight uses forcefulness and self-assertion to possess (or control) a partner or significant others. At times unable to adapt or let go, a strong enough yearning to be met fully can help this subtype let go of control and turn it over to a partner."</p> <p> </p> <p>"</p> <p><strong>Self-preservation: Warmth </strong><strong>– </strong><em>The </em><em>Family Loyalist</em><br /> Overcoming fear by making connections and agreements with others through personal warmth, this subtype doesn’t want to be left out in the cold. Experiencing a lack of warmth or a threat to their security early in life can create a fear of taking risks and a need to stay within well-known boundaries.</p> <p><strong>Social: </strong><strong>Duty – </strong><em>The </em><em>Social Guardian</em><br /> Being clear about one’s role in the group or society is an overriding concern. To overcome fear and avoid rejection, this subtype needs to know the rules and create clear agreements with friends and colleagues. Yet there may be ambivalence about belonging. Doing one’s duty can be both a calling and a burden.</p> <p><strong>One-to-One: </strong><strong>Strength or Beauty – </strong><em>The</em> <em>Warrior</em><br /> The first style is based on overcoming or avoiding fear through willpower and feats of physical strength and bravery, or through the strength of one’s intellect and fierce ideological positions. In the second style, fear and self-doubt are handled by channeling one’s idealism and keen perceptiveness into creating beauty in the environment. This helps create some stability and control."</p> <p> </p> <p>he did not fit to 8sx criteria (don't seek control), don't fit to 8 so (because he is a lone wolf, a 8so would lead other in his fight for his definition of justice),don't fit to 8sp (because survy is not the core of the character). the only description that fit to him is 6sx . so he is 6sx.</p>
Replying to post #1575 by fg

	fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST 2018/06/30 (Sat) 11:55:40 #1574
	what he defend is commonly accepted morality. even if he kill to do it . yes. and widly accepted opinion about death penality is it's that this should be allowed. in the citation that you quote , yeah he is often depassed by tension and his internal defense crumble easely yes. i did not said that ISTJ did not care if their family die you twist my words again (not surprising for a sophist like you). but T type would be more pragmatic and try to make in sort that this kind of actions will be not repeated, killing symptoms instead of cause is the opposite of "T".

Editing post #1574 by fg <p>what he defend is commonly accepted morality. even if he kill to do it . yes. and widly accepted opinion about death penality is it's that this should be allowed. in the citation that you quote , yeah he is often depassed by tension and his internal defense crumble easely yes. i did not said that ISTJ did not care if their family die you twist my words again (not surprising for a sophist like you). but T type would be more pragmatic and try to make in sort that this kind of actions will be not repeated, killing symptoms instead of cause is the opposite of "T".</p>
Replying to post #1574 by fg

Teru Mikami 2018/06/30 (Sat) 11:06:50 #1573
if anything, this should rule out 6 as he's shown to be someone of pure will and determination: The essential difference is that Sixes eventually will yield and their defenses will crumble if enough pressure is applied to them, whereas opposition to Eights only encourages them to remain defiant and to meet their adversary with renewed aggression.

Editing post #1573 by Teru Mikami <p>if anything, this should rule out 6 as he's shown to be someone of pure will and determination:</p> <p> </p> <p><em>The essential difference is that Sixes eventually will yield and their defenses will crumble if enough pressure is applied to them, whereas opposition to Eights only encourages them to remain defiant and to meet their adversary with renewed aggression.</em></p>
Replying to post #1573 by Teru Mikami

Teru Mikami 2018/06/30 (Sat) 11:00:45 #1571
Fe is about harmony and other people's feelings firstly yes, if you're not harmony or people-oriented you aren't Fe, and since when can't T types love their family? Would an ISTJ somehow not get affected over their family's death? Do they not have feelings now? Are they supposed to join the system that's responsible for it? There are ways that distinguish thinkers from feelers in how they deal with their emotions, sure, and going on a murderous rampage over bringing them to justice (commonly accepted morality!!) leans T and "Fi" more than anything else.

Editing post #1571 by Teru Mikami <p>Fe is about harmony and other people's feelings firstly yes, if you're not harmony or people-oriented you aren't Fe, and since when can't T types love their family? Would an ISTJ somehow not get affected over their family's death? Do they not have feelings now? Are they supposed to join the system that's responsible for it? There are ways that distinguish thinkers from feelers in how they deal with their emotions, sure, and going on a murderous rampage over bringing them to justice (commonly accepted morality!!) leans T and "Fi" more than anything else.</p>
Replying to post #1571 by Teru Mikami

	fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST 2018/06/30 (Sat) 10:31:51 #1569
	"he kills the people involved w his family's death because he's angry at them and bears a strong grudge, neither Fe nor Fi detail how you would "convince people"" he try to do this with Matt and you blindly ignore it."Fe into account (which in its core again is about harmony and the feelings of other people)" it's not only that. "but F in letters is ridiculous, he's not harmony-oriented, he hates people, he's forceful, cold and headstrong, all of which are heavy T criteria, ISFJ is impossible" motivation only based on feeling can't produce a F type. lol. "and the only way i can see him as a 6 is because he's "distrustful" as anyone who had their family murdered by the government would be" did you read the link that i posted, you usually refer to this source when you make yourself an argument enneagramm and now you reject it. you are non-sense.

Editing post #1569 by fg <p>"he kills the people involved w his family's death because he's angry at them and bears a strong grudge, neither Fe nor Fi detail how you would "convince people"" he try to do this with Matt and you blindly ignore it."Fe into account (which in its core again is about harmony and the feelings of other people)" it's not only that.</p> <p>"but F in letters is ridiculous, he's not harmony-oriented, he hates people, he's forceful, cold and headstrong, all of which are heavy T criteria, ISFJ is impossible" motivation only based on feeling can't produce a F type. lol. "and the only way i can see him as a 6 is because he's "distrustful" as anyone who had their family murdered by the government would be" did you read the link that i posted, you usually refer to this source when you make yourself an argument enneagramm and now you reject it. you are non-sense.</p>
Replying to post #1569 by fg

Teru Mikami 2018/06/30 (Sat) 09:31:42 #1568
you might be able to rationalise an ISFJ typing with "Si-Ti" if you don't take Fe into account (which in its core again is about harmony and the feelings of other people) but F in letters is ridiculous, he's not harmony-oriented, he hates people, he's forceful, cold and headstrong, all of which are heavy T criteria, ISFJ is impossible

Editing post #1568 by Teru Mikami <p>you might be able to rationalise an ISFJ typing with "Si-Ti" if you don't take Fe into account (which in its core again is about harmony and the feelings of other people) but F in letters is ridiculous, he's not harmony-oriented, he hates people, he's forceful, cold and headstrong, all of which are heavy T criteria, ISFJ is impossible</p>
Replying to post #1568 by Teru Mikami

Teru Mikami 2018/06/30 (Sat) 09:28:04 #1567
he kills the people involved w his family's death because he's angry at them and bears a strong grudge, neither Fe nor Fi detail how you would "convince people" (???) and he still does what's right to him in the end, he has a natural desire for control as shown more in the actual punisher series (that's about him rather than daredevil) where he bosses everyone around and hates cooperation yet also jumps to people's aid whenever the opportunity arises and even mentions how "violence" was part of his childhood (guess you could call that strong innate control-seeking, he's an 8), and the only way i can see him as a 6 is because he's "distrustful" as anyone who had their family murdered by the government would be

Editing post #1567 by Teru Mikami <p>he kills the people involved w his family's death because he's angry at them and bears a strong grudge, neither Fe nor Fi detail how you would "convince people" (???) and he still does what's right to him in the end, he has a natural desire for control as shown more in the actual punisher series (that's about him rather than daredevil) where he bosses everyone around and hates cooperation yet also jumps to people's aid whenever the opportunity arises and even mentions how "violence" was part of his childhood (guess you could call that strong innate control-seeking, he's an 8), and the only way i can see him as a 6 is because he's "distrustful" as anyone who had their family murdered by the government would be</p>
Replying to post #1567 by Teru Mikami

	fg xxTJ 6w5 Beta ST 2018/06/30 (Sat) 09:00:17 #1566
	all Castle's motivation are motivated by his past, his detail oriented and a disciplined soldier (Si). and he try to convince Dardevil that he is doing the right thing, and killed people based on commonly accepted morality(fe)( Fi don't try to convince people about being right becaue it's only focus on his own moral judgment). Ti because he adapt quiclky to external situation. 6w5 because his violence is more a reaction after being pushed by society than a natural desire of control https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/misidentifying-6-and-8 .

Editing post #1566 by fg <p>all Castle's motivation are motivated by his past, his detail oriented and a disciplined soldier (Si). and he try to convince Dardevil that he is doing the right thing, and killed people based on commonly accepted morality(fe)( Fi don't try to convince people about being right becaue it's only focus on his own moral judgment). Ti because he adapt quiclky to external situation. 6w5 because his violence is more a reaction after being pushed by society than a natural desire of control https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/misidentifying-6-and-8 .</p>
Replying to post #1566 by fg

date	username	vote
22/06/01 12:00	rock and roll	ISTJ
22/03/07 10:15	GIJOEBusta Cap	ISTJ
18/10/28 12:57	fiddlediddle	ISFJ
18/06/20 03:46	fg	ISFJ
18/06/12 02:36	kawaii	ISTJ
18/06/12 10:50	Teru Mikami	ISTJ

date	username	vote
22/06/01 12:00	rock and roll	ISTJ
22/03/07 10:15	GIJOEBusta Cap	ISTJ
18/06/12 10:50	Teru Mikami	ISTJ
18/06/20 03:46	fg	ISFJ

date	username	vote
22/06/01 12:00	rock and roll	6w5
22/03/07 10:15	GIJOEBusta Cap	6w5
18/06/12 10:50	Teru Mikami	8w9

date	username	vote
22/06/01 12:00	rock and roll	sp/sx
22/03/07 10:15	GIJOEBusta Cap	sp/sx
18/06/12 10:50	Teru Mikami	sp/sx